Advice from someone familiar with code enforcement/permits ?

[Unregistered-tnis0612]

I bought a duplex in Virginia that I am renovating with a friend. We are doing EVERYTHING ourselves. We tore out every wall (loadbearing walls we supported with steel posts until they were replaced) and are changing the floorplan. We plan to do all electrical, plumbing, framing ourselves with some oversight from my uncle who is a licensed new construction plumber, a good family friend who has worked as an electrician for years, and another good family friend who is a builder in a nearby town. During demo we had neighbors tell us that there was a city inspecter snooping around. We havent planned on getting any permits in order to save time, money on the permits themselves, all the drawings necessary, and not being sure whether the city would let us do some of the things we wanted to do since we are in a historic disctrict. We both have full time jobs so we only do work after 5pm and on weekends. All of the windows in the house are covered and we havent heard anything from the inspectors since they came a few months ago. We plan to rent this place once we are finished and probably wouldnt sell the house for many many years. Before we drywall the walls we plan to make sure that EVERYTHING is done 100% to code.

What is the worst case scenario if we get caught? Is it possible that the inspector knows what is going on and is just waiting for us to finish in order to screw us even more? If we take detailed pictures of EVERYTHING we have done…claim ignorance (we are 24-25 year old kids and I honestly didn’t know how many things we needed permits for until just recently) do you think if they can tell things are to code by the pictures they would not make us tear everything out? If they did make us tear everything out would it just be drywall so they could see?

I assume at worst…we get caught towards the end and have to rip out a bunch of drywall and pay 3-4 times the normal permit costs. Is this accurate?

[Unregistered-MaxM]

Cant claim ignorance on this one, but what you should do is call a neighboring city or county and present to them your project with out giving the address. They should exactamate the permit cost through permit schedule fees. You can also ask your cities Schedule fee and get that faxed over to you.

[bobsbuddy]

A buddy of mine told me this story of why he doesn’t have a toilet in his workshop:

One fellow citizen was building an outbuilding where a toilet was prohibited. Undaunted, he roughed in all the plumbing and waste drain. Then covered it up and poured concrete over it for the inspection. Once all the inspections were done, he chiseled out the concrete and added his toilet. The inspector made a surprise visit and was furious. The guy had to rip up the slab and dig up the waste line all the way back to his house.

So worst case? They might make you rip it all out and do it with the proper permits and inspections.

Doesn’t sound so costly now to file the permits does it?

[itsreallyconcrete]

getting the ‘stop work’ order posted,,, that & ripping out all you’ve done – but it does get worser – the bldg may be uninsureable by a carrier since work wasn’t done under permit,,, while sweat equity’s allowed, if permits’re rqd, ‘they’ want their taste.

better make friends w/bldg inspectors, say your ‘mea culpa’s, pay the vig, & get on w/the job,,, this can either be a bump OR an insurmountable (expensive) trip.

[Unregistered-hammer]

and stupid

[HKestenholz]

“we plan to make sure that EVERYTHING is done 100% to code. “
The way to make sure that EVERYTHING is done 100% to code is to submit the drawings so the code official approves the work. There is no code without the written code official approval. What paper does the insurance company refer to for their verification of code safety? How does one get a certificate of occupancy without it? What papers do the fire inspector or court refer to if there is a problem with the tenants?

http://www.heatpro.us energy businessmen’s knowledge

Yes, you really have to find out the MAKE and MODEL to get good answers. There IS more than one machine made.

[itsreallyconcrete]

i’m sure you’re exhausted from the beat-down you’ve gotten so far,,, i don’t see how you can claim ignorance – 24 is NOT a kid – you’re of legal age & knew what you were doing when you ignored the laws,,, even worse is your ‘good family friend’ & your uncle are complicit & risked their OWN licenses – i can only guess they’re jack-leg back-of-the-truck OR de-frock’d by respective licensing agencies.

we all like to save $ but you’ve compounded your problem by committing this in an HISTORIC district who’s controlling committees’re usually HEARTLESS, EXTREMELY VENGEFUL, & hate EVERYONE anyway !!!

the permits won’t cost any more’n the posted schedule of fees but do NOT anticipate getting any slack – you’ve added on MONTHS AND MONEY to this job,,, you can’t be allowed to flout OR finish without MAJOR sucking up,,, you can’t rent til there’s a certificate of occupancy – well, you could but that’d be illegal, too.

come to think of it, that shouldn’t bother you at all,,, sorry, charlie – the days of outlaws are done !!!

i just hope you haven’t put your parents/grandparents loans at SERIOUS risk – no one in their right mind’d do what you’ve done w/your OWN $$$,,, stop watching those )(*^#@#^* tv shows & do the right thing voluntarily,,, you’ll be forced into that path anyway so might as well come clean now.

[Unregistered-Opinion#2]

First, I will assume you got a CO when you bought the house before you started your work. The inspector cannot come into your house now. If he knocks you say, “you can’t come in.” Get all of your work done and, still, don’t let an inspector in the house.
Now the problems: insurance and resale. If your renter gets hurt because of a bad, unpermitted job you did, your screwed. When it comes time to sell your investment, that’s when you have to let the inspector in, you could be screwed.
You need to weigh this all out for yourself and decide what’s best.

[itsreallyconcrete]

weekly paper here in marietta, ga – church leader cops a plea & is threatened/promised JAIL for failing to obtain permits – failing to obey stop work order – no stamped approved plans – no inspections – no NUTTIN!!!

judge says tear EVERYTHING down & restore it pre-work – COMPLETELY AS IT WAS !!! or head for the hoosegow SIXTY DAYS or til site & building’s put back to original,,, i wonder what would’ve happened if he’d been in an historic district.

btw, it wasn’t a car wash or the manse – IT WAS THE CHURCH ITSELF!!!

[Bruno1949]

You HAVE to have permits for the work. ALL the work! No exceptions, no second chances. ESPECIALLY if you plan to rent it! You do not need licensed contractors or plumbers or electricians but it wouldn’t hurt if they inspected the work and gave their approval before the city inspector showed up. However, you have already compromised the structure, the wiring, the plumbing, and heaven knows what else at this point.

Worst case scenario? The city revokes your occupancy permit, they lock you up for a few months, they fine you a couple of hundred thousand, and THEN they get nasty and make you return the entire property to the original condition on your own dime. Without a city inspection you will NEVER get a rental permit. You will NEVER get power, water, or sewer hooked up. You will NEVER get insurance. You will NEVER get an occupancy permit. You will NEVER be able to resell the property.

At this point all you can hope for is some mercy from the city. You probably won’t get it. They tend to frown on illegal activities of this magnitude.

Permits are not a punishment or a means to generate money from poor slobs. Permits are required because too many people figure “this wall is strong enough” or the plumbing and wiring are “close enough”. If they aren’t they will kill someone. In your case you won’t kill yourselves, you will kill whomever was living in this building.

Being ‘creative’ is good, but not applying for the necessary permits is dangerous, stupid, and illegal. You are not going to come out of this well. Even if the work passed code it doesn’t make up for not having the permits to do the work in the first place.

Sadly, being in a ‘historic district’ would have probably only meant that you had to have the proper paint colors in front and the proper type of front door and window shape. It wouldn’t have affected the remodeling inside. You are about to lose the whole thing and end up owing the city a LOT of money and there is no excuse you can offer that will change that.

You might just as well get your affairs in order and go down to city hall and face the music. With luck you won’t be thrown into jail.

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